Building from Boulder, CO
Technology × Endurance × Storytelling

The Future of Running Podcast

129 Years of Boston. 10 Lessons from Jack Fleming.

CEO, Boston Athletic Association · Boston Marathon · Steward of the world's oldest annual marathon

By Phil Dumontet, CEO, Laurel Innovations · Recorded live at the Business of Running Events Conference, San Diego

I sat down with Jack Fleming — CEO of the Boston Athletic Association and steward of the world's oldest annual marathon — at the Business of Running Events Conference in San Diego. Jack is one of the most thoughtful and generous leaders in our sport. Over the course of our conversation, recorded right after the conference wrapped, he shared lessons about legacy, accessibility, charity, the downhill indexing debate, and what it means to build something that outlasts you. Here are the 10 that stayed with me.

01

Legacy & Stewardship

Your job is to pass it down generationally — not just to run it well this year

Jack framed his entire role at the BAA through a single lens: stewardship. Right now, somewhere in San Diego, there are probably a couple of 10-year-olds who will run the Boston Marathon in 15 years. They haven't heard about it yet. And at some point between now and then, they will — and they'll start putting it on their bucket list. Jack's job is to make sure the race is still worth putting on that list when they get there.

"We want this event to be similar — not the same, but similar — to what it's been, so that it can be something that's passed down generationally. As it has been passed down generationally for four or five generations now."

That long-term mindset shapes everything — from how carefully they implement changes like the downhill index, to how they approach charity, para divisions, and accessibility. Nothing is done for this year alone.

Ask yourself: am I building this race for 2025, or for 2045? The decisions look very different depending on the answer.
02

Words Matter

Call it an index, not a penalty — and mean it

When Boston introduced the downhill course adjustment for 2027, there was a deliberate choice made about language. Jack was clear: they landed on "index" or "adjustment" — not "penalty." That wasn't PR spin. It was a genuine reflection of how the BAA thinks about its relationship with the broader race ecosystem.

"Words do matter. We arrived at the term 'index' or 'adjustment' because we are sensitive to everyone's desire — sometimes obsession — to run the race of their preference. We did not want to be disruptive of that ecosystem."

He compared introducing the policy to walking into a cocktail reception and introducing yourself the right way — respectfully, not by announcing your presence. The downhill races are part of the ecosystem. Boston appreciates them. The goal was to make an adjustment, not pick a fight.

Before your next policy change or announcement, audit the language. Are you framing it the way you actually mean it — or the way that's easiest to write?
03

Charity & Purpose

We are due for another growth era in charity — and it won't be because people have to

Jack shared a prediction that stopped me. He believes the next great wave of charity fundraising in our sport isn't coming from obligation — it's coming from identity. The fastest-growing demographic in running is women aged 20 to 29. This generation isn't running for charity because they need a bib. They're running for charity because they want their marathon to mean something beyond themselves.

"I'm not just here running the Boston Marathon. I'm here wearing Teddy's Team or Youth Enrichment Services on my shirt. And if you're curious — if you know me, you know what I care about. Come explore it. And if you'd like to contribute $10, not to me, but to that organization — that would be wonderful."

The question is shifting. It's no longer "what time are you going for?" It's "who are you running for?" And as Mike Nishi put it at this same conference — soon, not having an answer to that question will feel strange.

Build charity pathways that feel like identity expression, not obligation. Make it easy for runners to wear their cause visibly and tell their story.
04

Inclusivity

If you're closing roads, they should be closed for everyone

Jack has been a quiet but consistent leader on para and adaptive athletics — and his framing of it is simple and powerful. When you close roads, you're creating a public space. That space should be for everyone. The BAA now has seven para divisions in the marathon and five across their shorter distances, covering intellectual impairment, visual impairment, upper and lower limb impairment, and a growing range of adaptive classifications.

But he was also honest about what it takes. It's not just adding a registration category. It requires staff training, volunteer education, medical team awareness, and infrastructure adjustments. His advice: don't do it halfway. If you're going to welcome adaptive athletes, build the system around them properly — or you haven't really welcomed them.

Audit your para and adaptive program. Is it a registration checkbox or a fully supported experience? There's a meaningful difference.
05

Participant Experience

The finish line at 5:30pm is as important as the finish line at 9:30am

This was one of the most beautiful moments in the conversation. Jack described a new phenomenon that emerged organically at this year's Boston Marathon — something the team hadn't planned, hadn't promoted, and couldn't have manufactured. Between 5pm and 6pm, runners who had finished hours earlier came back to Boylston Street. They lined the course three deep for the last finishers. And they cheered — loudly, genuinely, for people they'd never met.

"They have Boylston Street to themselves. They're coming down that last stretch. And guess what — they're cheering for you. Not the number one finisher. Not a superstar. They came out to see you. And they are cheering for you."

Jack called it a newer thing. Organic. Not planned. And he can't wait to see where it goes. Neither can I.

Design your finish experience for your last finisher, not just your first. The final hour of your race is a storytelling opportunity most events are leaving on the table.
06

Accessibility

The number one reason someone doesn't sign up for a marathon is fear of finishing last

Jack shared a study that I keep coming back to. The single biggest barrier to first-time marathon registration isn't the training, the cost, or the logistics. It's the fear of finishing last. Or not finishing at all. That fear — quiet, personal, rarely spoken — is what's keeping millions of potential participants on the couch.

His answer isn't to remove timing or competition. It's to make the support so visible, so abundant, so loud all the way to the final finisher, that the fear becomes irrational. An entire city behind you. Volunteers still cheering at hour six. Runners who finished five hours earlier coming back to cheer for strangers.

Find one way to communicate to your potential first-timers that the course will still be cheering for them at the end — and then make sure it's true.
07

Race Ecosystem

Every race has a unique personality — lean into it, don't sand it down

At the conference, Jack had lunch with Doug from the Flying Pig Marathon. He'd never been to Cincinnati. He left the lunch wanting to go. Not because the Flying Pig is trying to be Boston — but because it's completely, unapologetically itself. He marveled at it.

This is one of the things Jack loves most about this industry: the ecosystem isn't competitive in the way people assume. A runner who loves Boston also loves Grandma's Marathon, the Flying Pig, Revel races, and the Bolder Boulder 10K. There's no zero-sum dynamic. The more each race leans into its own personality and story, the stronger the whole ecosystem becomes.

"Every race has a unique personality. There are different reasons to run each of them, and there are different paths to Boston as well. Lean into that. Double down on it in your marketing and your storytelling."
What is the one thing about your race that can't be replicated anywhere else? If you can't answer that in one sentence, it's worth a conversation with your team.
08

Site Visits

You can't describe it. You need to go see it.

Jack described sending his team to the Bank of America 13.1 in Chicago — not just going himself, but bringing multiple people from different departments. Because he'd gone two years in a row and come back and talked about it, and it still wasn't enough. Some things you simply cannot transfer through a debrief or a slide deck. They have to be felt in person.

His advice: when you send people to other events, bring more than one person, and bring people from different areas — marketing, operations, medical. The crossover perspective compounds the learning. And when you borrow an idea, make sure you make it authentically yours — don't just lift it and transplant it. What works in Chicago needs to be reimagined for Boston, for Phoenix, for wherever you are.

Commit to attending at least two events outside your own this year — and bring someone from your team. Budget for it the same way you'd budget for a conference.
09

Community Building

A race is a force multiplier — build it for the whole community, not just the participants

Jack's advice to younger race directors building something new was rooted in a simple question: who benefits? Not just the runners. The schools. The fire department. The police. The local businesses. The volunteers. The spectators who have never run a mile but come out every year because race day is their day too.

"Who would be against an event that makes people feel great about themselves, reflects favorably on the community, has a long-term health benefit, and is a positive thing in so many ways? Then why don't we do more of it? Who wants to help?"

The BAA runs with 9,500 volunteers across eight cities and towns. Hundreds of thousands of residents — mostly non-runners — come out for marathon Monday. That's not an accident. It's a decade of relationship building, investment in the community, and a genuine commitment to being something bigger than a race.

List every stakeholder who benefits from your race beyond the runners. Then ask: are you actively investing in those relationships year-round, or only when you need a permit?
10

Hot Take

The 10K is coming back — and it might be the most important distance in running

Jack's hot take, delivered at the end of the conversation, is one I've been thinking about ever since. He believes the 10K is poised for a major comeback — and he made the case compellingly. It's not a 5K, where you can roll out of bed and get through it. It requires real training and real commitment. But it's not so long that it's intimidating to a first-timer. It has a hook: you finish a 10K and immediately think, I could double that. And then you're in.

He grew up running the Crescent City Classic in New Orleans — the Mardi Gras of running, he called it, from the French Quarter to City Park. That 10K was his entry point into everything. And he sees that same pipeline energy building again, especially as the COVID-era running boom works its way up the distance ladder from 5Ks toward longer distances.

"The 10K is so right for a comeback. Before there was a half marathon, there was the 10K. It's more than a 5K — you still need to train. But it has that hook where you finish and you think: I can double that. And then you're in."
If your event doesn't have a 10K, ask why not. If it does, ask whether you're treating it as a gateway to your longer distances — or just a bolt-on.

"The future of running has never looked brighter."

Jack's closing words — and a responsibility, not a boast. We are at an all-time level of popularity. The job now is not to over-harness it, but to understand what we have and channel it for everyone's health — physical, mental, and communal.